My pastor, who is a fine priest and whom I love dearly, in a homily a couple of weeks ago referred to the United States of America as the "greatest nation in the world." He did so in passing, while denouncing capital punishment: "even in this, the greatest nation in the world, we commit the atrocious sin of executing criminals."
As an aside, while I am against capital punishment, I find his vehement opposition curious. He supports the war in Iraq, after all. How one can consider it an atrocity to execute convicted murderers while regarding the deaths of Iraqi civilians as acceptable "collateral damage" is beyond me. Even in killing enemy combatants we are most often killing some poor blighter uprooted from his dusty village by the local draft board, not a conscious and intentional murderer. In short, while I oppose executing criminals, it is pretty far down on my list of moral outrages.
But it was Father’s reference to the United States as the "greatest nation in the world," not his mention of the death penalty that caught my ear. I doubt the statement bothered anyone else in the congregation, aside from a young man who lives at the local Catholic Worker house. After all, we have heard the phrase since we were small children; it is a vital part of the American Creed.
But what could this statement possibly mean? Does the Christian who makes this claim suppose that this country has created a culture that uniquely glorifies God, that makes contemplation easier, virtue more readily attained? I trust this question answers itself.
Or is it claimed that America has achieved greatness in its religious art, architecture and music? While Americans have indeed created beautiful religious works, those works are in the end, aside from African-American spirituals, mostly derivative, most accurately European in style.
What then could he mean? Many will answer this by pointing to American religious freedom. While it is true that there is relative freedom of religion in this country, there is also a mostly unspoken understanding that this is to exist only in the private realm. In Poland, under communism, for example, public schools had crucifixes on classroom walls. Religious instruction took place within school walls. Try that in the most Catholic town in the U.S., in New Mexico, say, or Pennsylvania and see how much freedom we have.
It is similar with our other freedoms. Truly, there are many countries with fewer freedoms, and more egregious human rights violations, but it is also true that we are not unique in possessing the freedoms we have. ("America: not the worst country in the world"; now there’s a motto I could get behind.)
In fact, I can think of only one area where the U.S. possesses unrivaled greatness: that of raw military power. Surely the Christian cannot be affirming that it is in this that America’s status as "greatest" resides.
In saying all this I am not committing the opposite error, that of saying that America is uniquely evil, the worst nation on earth. While it is true that the U.S. is a great force for evil in the contemporary world, the largest exporter of weaponry, pornography, and a soul-killing popular culture, it is our military and economic power that permits this scale of evil, not some weird genetic predisposition to immorality.
Nor am I denying that is a good and natural thing to love one’s country. One can easily imagine an Irishman, or a Pole, or an Ethiopian holding that his is the most beautiful, or the dearest, or the most blessed country on earth. How comical it would be to hear him claim that it is the greatest.
Indeed, the notion that their nation is the greatest has existed in only a handful of peoples: the Romans, the Aztecs, the British, the Germans, the Russians. In each of these instances greatness has been perceived as bearing the obligation to carry its blessing to other peoples, by force if necessary.
If that sounds familiar it should: we 21st century Americans are in the grips of a messianic imperialism, the kind that has gripped segments of humanity from time to time.
And I fear we are in for the same kind of rude awakening as the other erstwhile saviors of mankind.
–Daniel Nichols
“america: not the worst country in the world.” i think i can get behind that too.
For the last decade or so, I too have been bothered when I hear the United States of America referred to as the “greatest nation in the world.” Thanks for sharing some great thoughts!
Actually I think we are a great country, in more ways than military, and have in general a higher opinion of the USA than Daniel does. But it’s not heaven and it’s not the Church and we’re not the Chosen People. We’re running a risk, both collectively and in many individual cases, of self-idolatry. I admired a lot of things about Ronald Reagan but the “shining city on a hill” speech always made me a little uneasy.
Comments about America as the greatest country in the world have bothered or enraged me (depending on my mood) for years. Aside from the improbability of it – based on our culture, achievements, etc., how could one possibly KNOW, unless he had lived in many other countries and had a deep knowledge of their cultures? I got into a little tiff on July 4th after Mass with my pastor who had just preached a thoroughly Americanist homily and called for singing “America the Beautiful” (I thought we went to Mass to worship God). I think Dan is correct, most Americans would respond “Freedom” if challenged as to why they believe we are the greatest country. Yet freedom, unless carefully defined, is not even a good. The freedom of the abortionist or the sweat-shop owner is not a good, and in fact would not be permitted to exist in a well-ordered polity.
Wait, I stand corrected, and so do y’all: The USA is the greatest country in the world.
“But what about spiritual greatness?” you may say. To which I reply: “Top this.”
I can’t say that I cringe or get outraged when I hear my country called the greatest nation on earth. I can relate to Maclin, in that I’m not really proud of her all the time, but sometimes I am, and I see a good deal of goodness in her underpinnings. I will say that I think the USA is the greatest nation on the earth right now, but not with much gusto, and not as a rallying cry, and only by default because I can’t immediately think of any other country that is obviously better, which isn’t saying much. And Thomas, I have always liked the words of “America the Beautiful.” I probably wouldn’t want to sing it at any other mass than in a United States Independence Day weekend liturgy, and then only for a recessional hymn, but I think the words capture something of what our country should be asking the Good God for:
America! America!
God mend thine ev’ry flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law.
O beautiful for heroes prov’d
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life.
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness,
And ev’ry gain divine.
So here is the question: Which is the greatest nation on the earth right now? Vatican City? (I don’t know if that counts.) There can be debate about what critieria one should use to determine it, but I mean in the broadest, all-encompassing sense of culture, peacefulness, security, morality, happiness, spirituality, freedom, respect, human dignity, health, etc., what country is the greatest? Any opinions out there? Mine is that when the filthy dust settles, that the good ole U S of A ends up on top, perhaps if not considered “the greatest”, then the “least worst”, but still on top.
When I hear people say, as Daniel’s (Nichols) priest did, that the USA is “the greatest nation on earth” I don’t take it as a rigorous proposition, but as mostly an expression of love and patriotism, and cut the speaker a lot of slack. But if we take it seriously I think it would be pretty hard to maintain that we are “great,” much less “the greatest,” in some of the virtues you (Daniel E.) name, though in others we are, at least arguably. The one that jumps out at me in your list is morality. In the sense of personal morals, sexual and others, it’s hard to believe we’d be at the top, if only because of the way the entertainment industry saturates our consciousness with thoughts of sin.
I have to agree with Tom, too, that “American the Beautiful”, as much as I like it, is out of place at Mass. Nothing wrong–in fact a lot right–with what it says, but it’s not about or addressed to God.
p.s. I react the same way to “Let There Be Peace On Earth.” Worse, actually, as it has such a hokey tin-pan-alley tune. In case anybody thinks I’m only picking on the patriotic song.
Daniel Ellis asked: “So here is the question: Which is the greatest nation on the earth right now?”
My position is that if the question even has a reasonable answer, it’s probably impossible to determine which country is the greatest. I certainly don’t know enough to hazard an answer. The U.S. has one of the most permissive abortion regimes in the world; right now our foreign policy (both our invasion of Iraq and our funding of contraception around the world) is extremely evil; our capitalism is probably the most rapacious there is. Do we have any good features? Certainly. Our pro-life movement (despite its stupid alliance with the Republicans) puts to shame anything they have in Europe, is one example.
BTW, thinking that we are the greatest or best country in the world has nothing to do with love of country. Patriotism is like love of the family into which we were born or of our home town – we’d be silly to think that it was necessarily the best or greatest, but we love it with a love of affection. For those unfamiliar with the description of this love, see C. S. Lewis’ The Four Loves.
If patriotism meant thinking one’s nation was the greatest, how could patriotism be a virtue and a duty for everyone in every nation? For it would seem to follow that if there were always only one best nation, only the citizens of that nation could be patriotic, and all the rest of the world would be simply waiting for their visas to immigrate there.
In fact, it’s probably possible to admire another country and think its culture is greater than one’s own, yet still love one’s own country with true patriotic affection.
As everyone seems to admit, national greatness depends on what criteria you use. Orestes Brownson wrote an article called national greatness (I will have to reread it) but it seems to me that he made the case that the greatest nation is that nation where the greatest number of people are saving their souls. If that is the criteria then certainly there are many other nations greater than America. Our nation not only is neutral with regard to people saving their souls, but sets up institutional hindrances to that goal. Lets face it – our government makes it much easier to be a sinner than a saint. Here is the link to the article if anyone would like to read it :
http://www.orestesbrownson.com/index.php?id=125
I agree with Brownson’s criterion, Christopher, but we have no way at all of knowing whose souls are being saved, or what the percentage is in any nation. Personally I think it’s far from obvious or certain that the percentage is lower in the USA than in other places.
Although I hesitate to bring this up, I feel obliged in honesty to do so: I disagree with Thomas Storck’s view above that the war in Iraq is “extremely evil.” I don’t have leisure to engage in an extensive debate on it, and besides everyone has surely heard all possible arguments, pro and con, at this point. (If not, feed the following string to Google and prepare to spend several hours reading extremely long Catholic-vs.-Catholic arguments on the matter: “iraq war site:http://amywelborn.typepad.com/“.) One of these days I’m going to take the time to lay out fully my views on this, so I can just say “click here” for my opinion.
I believe that we can have some idea. For example What percentage of the populace is living in a perpetual objective state of mortal sin (taking contraceptives, living together without marriage, engaging in serial polygamy, etc.). What percentage of the population is dying with the last sacraments. I am aghast at what is going on in once Catholic Ireland, yet the people I talk to tell me the vast majority of Catholics there die with the Sacraments.
Next is the government encouraging virtue through their laws? Is it easier to live the conceptive mentality or to be open to life? Is it easier to kill your baby then raise your baby? Is it easier to get a divorce than it is to stick it out through the rough spots in a marriage? etc. (Ireland is doing worse and worse on many of these questions BTW)I believe all these questions have objective answers that can give us some ideas.
Finally, I am not at all optimistic about the salvation of someone who spends his entire life living in objective mortal sin, never giving any impression of seeking God and dies apparently cut off from the True Church and without Her sacraments.
Even granting all that, the U.S. is no worse than most of the developed world. Most Islamic countries might appear far superior to just about any historically Christian country in the world. But on the other hand there are some really sick hidden undercurrents of homosexuality in those cultures, not to mention that the practice of Catholicism is not just rare but forbidden in a number of them. Africa? Truly stupendous levels of promiscuity and mass deaths from sexually transmitted disease. Latin America? Reportedly widespread abortion, certainly a generally low level of sexual morality. Grotesque levels of prostitution, often of children, in parts of Asia, and officially atheistic governments in others.
Etc etc. Obviously we would all agree that a healthy Catholic culture is better for souls, but looking around the world I don’t see one. I just wouldn’t be willing to assert with any confidence what is actually happening in the souls of people anywhere.
But anyway: just for the record, when I asserted some posts back that I think the U.S. is in some ways a great country, I meant “great” in more or less worldly terms.
I think the problem most people have with the proposition that America is the greatest is the idea that America is great, let alone in a relative sense. Even to propose that we are the greatest nation on earth seems to imply that we have special relationship with God that shoots us straight to heaven. In fact, this whole deal comes from the Protestant founders that rejected the Church and thought they had the new Israel.
Okay, while I’ll agree that the question may be an unreasonable one (which is the greatest nation), what I’m contending is that impulses of cringe, revulsion, anger, etc. at hearing a politician or even a well-meaning clergy say America is the greatest nation on earth are perhaps too extreme. Maybe a more reasonable response would be to think, “well, she certainly has a lot of problems, but everywhere else is even worse, so I guess she is greatest by default, if not by her own merits.” This sounds kind of lame, I know, but the point is that with all the sin in the world, all the temptations, and all the attacks by Satan to rob souls from the chance to attain Heaven, this country of ours, (and more importantly our citizens) seem to be doing the best job at fighting back. I know that statement elicits responses of, “But, America does this terrible thing, and that sinful thing!” and I know well that she does. And so do I also do this terrible thing and that sinful thing. I’m not saying America has acheived the equivalent of nation sainthood. Only that she seems to be giving the best (albiet still pretty weak) struggle in a sometimes discouraging spiritual battle. I am very open and interested however in someone’s opinion about another nation that is greater.
Of course, in my previous post, I didn’t limit my criteria to just spiritual realms, and I am not opposed to Brownson’s criterion, but I don’t see that as the exclusive criterion, as far as the question I was asking. I know that the things of eternal significance are most important, but judging whole nations might encompass that and more.
For instance, let’s say we have a hypothetical country, named Mudhole, that is a hot dry desert (except when it floods every year, and then it is a mud-hole), overcrowded, all the population has leprosy, and the government is an orthodox Catholic city-state, that promotes all things right and true, and vocations to the priesthood are high, and sin in any form is always discouraged by Mudhole’s society. They have very primitive art and music expression, and the countryside is pretty much ugly to look at. They routinely receive attacks from their hostile neighbors, sometimes burning whole villages to the ground. Architecture is drab, except for their cathedrals and hospitals which are a testament to what a society can do with a lot of clay, straw, and silty shale which is the only decent building materials around. No other country in the world is equal to Mudhole in spritual fervor and virtue. Oh, and (even though they have no standing pools of water) the mosquitoes and biting flies are abundant, and spread malaria and other disease. So, assuming all the other real nations existed to compare Mudhole to, is Mudhole the greatest nation on earth?
Let me put the question another way. If you had no predisposed sentiments or patriotism to any particular country (because you were born there or whatever the reason, and I know it is almost impossible to think without some “love” of place), then what county today would you choose to live in, raise a family in, and try to live out your faith in, so that one day you and your entire family could make it to Heaven?
Dear Mr. Ellis,
I feel that your question is completely fair and I will attempt to give some kind of an answer.
First, I found your example of Mudhole quite humorous, however, I piously believe that such a hypothetical could never exist. I do not believe that any place where the Catholic faith is strong, could possibly be lacking in culture, art or architecture. I believe that Catholicism is a fruitful religion and would produce these things without difficulty. I also believe that God’s Providence directs all things, and “that all things work to the good to them that love God.” I believe that national disasters, wars, famines are usually punishments from God meant to call people back to Him, or tests for man in the sense of Job. So if there were a nation of faithful Catholics, I would take that and know that the rest would follow.
As for examples of other countries that would be better, I first would like to say what I find most objectionable in America. America is a country where it is almost impossible to be a strong Catholic, because “patriotism” is too close to a religion. Since America has no common race, religion, culture, etc, patriotism has to do with loving freedom, and democracy, instead of loving our race or our land. And this love of freedom and democracy is taught almost as a religion to all the young people. Because of this “brain-washing” very few Catholics every look to the Church for guidance in any matter. For example I was at a lecture given by a some-what famous traditional/conservative Catholic, who makes his living commenting on politics and history. After his lecture I asked him about certain social teachings of the Church, and he admitted without any shame that he had never read anything the Church had said on politics, economics, or any social issues. I was shocked but not surprised, because this is the answer I receive all the time. Talk to a Catholic who is an economist or lawyer and they will tell you they have never even considered that the Church might have something to say in these areas (except perhaps the economist who will tell that Catholic social teaching is nothing but socialism). They will all invariably tell you that our justice/political/economic system is not only the greatest in world today, but the greatest that man has ever devised. Now, I realize that many who read the caelum blog would not say this, but the vast majority of serious Catholics that I know would.
In large part because of this, I feel like Catholics have no real options in many areas. You can be a Republican or a Democrat, a capitalist or a socialist, in justice you can favor the defendant or the prosecution (but not the truth). You can be a legal positivist, or a liberal legal activist. You can practice the spiritual works of mercy or the corporal works of mercy. It seems like the whole system was set up so that it is impossible to have any real choices.
Now if you are still with me, I would say any country that would allow you to practice your Faith, and can keep the peace would be better than America. I have talked with people from other countries and the radical nationalism just does not seem to exist. Your choices seem to also be greater in other countries because patriotism is not linked to a specific form of government. Even in other democracies, because they tend to have multi-party systems, you have a greater ability to vote your conscience, instead of constantly having to chose the least evil.
As for what country I would live in if Providence did not place me in America – I would say a second or third world country, that has at least the remnants of a Catholic culture, and bishops and priests that have the faith. Argentina, Brazil, Slovenia (I just visited with two Slovenian priests Sunday), or Lithuania.
Finally, I do realize that this could be just another form of “the grass is always greener”
Thank you Thomas Storck for giving the proper understanding of patriotism, and for explaining the fallacy of the false modern notion.
By the way, is it possible to love the leviathan? Is it possible to love that which takes longer than a day to walk across, or to see across? To all natural things there is a limit.
Just to prevent any potential misunderstanding, this piece from a month or two ago describes my conception of patriotism.
Christopher, these are awfully strong words: “America is a country where it is almost impossible to be a strong Catholic.” If you really believe that, don’t you have a moral obligation to find another place to live? I mean, Providence may have placed you here, but surely you aren’t required to stay if it is likely to cost you your soul, especially as you believe there are better places. I’m glad you do grant the possibility that the “grass is greener” syndrome could be operating.
Dear Mr. Horton,
I guess I should have been more clear about what I meant by the term “strong Catholic”. I do not think that you have to be canonizable, in order to be a strong Catholic, but I do think it is more than just doing the minimum to save your soul. The conservative Catholics I know, that I gave as examples above, all go to Mass regularly (some daily), go to confession when they need to, and will most like call for a priest when it is time to die. So I have little doubt that they are living in a state of grace. However, I would still say that they are weak Catholics, because they have no Catholic instincts, and they have inordinate attachments to certain political affiliations. It is this weakness that I feel is keeping this country from being much better. This weakness is also the great victory of the enemy, because it allows the Faith to be kept in check, and from mounting a serious challenge to the established order. So I am not so much worried about losing my soul, or my children losing their souls, as much as I am worried that my children will wind up being better Americans than Catholics.
That said the reason I stay in America is first and foremost because God placed me here, and if He wants me to leave He will have to show me. Secondly, I believe that America is closer to bottoming out than the other countries I listed. There are people in America that have figured out that the “American dream,” is more a nightmare that they need to try and wake up from. The countries I listed are only now beginning to become materialistic. I do see signs of hope in this country. The homeschool movement is a very hopeful sign. I have noticed that young adults who have been homeschooled are much less likely to have the sentimental attachments their parents had. Many were formed by reading the lives of Saints, instead of the lives of the founding fathers, so they tend to be able to see the difference between the principles of the Saints and those of America. Finally, I believe this country has a Catholic destiny, and that God placed me here to help in some small way to bring it about. All of this being said, I will also say that I will leave the country if my children are ever drafted to defend the new Empire or “freedom and democracy” (as opposed to defending the country).
I thought your piece on patriotism was very good, and I agreed with what you said.
I thought Christopher Sarsfield’s post above with his diagnosis of the root evils of Americanism was very perceptive and well put.
It seems that Maclin and I agree pretty much about what true patriotism is, and I feel the same way about Ohio that he does about Alabama. Actually I seriously thought about leaving this country in the 1980s and moving to Ireland (I actually went over and looked at places to live), but for various reasons I won’t go into we never moved. I now see that even though at that time Ireland’s culture was objectively superior to ours, I would always have been an outsider, a stranger there in some way. The love of affection also includes being comfortable with what is one’s own, even if it is extremely trying. Even those who grew up in disfunctional families might, I daresay, find it easier to interact with their own siblings and relatives than learn the strange ways of a family that he can see is nonetheless objectively better. There is nothing sinful with moving elsewhere, but if I were ever to do so, I realize I would always be marked as an American. This is part of God’s providence so I accept that it is part of his plan for me. Had it been within my power to choose where I would be born, that’s another matter, but I can do nothing about my birth and upbringing any more than about my height or hair color.
Often writers, for example, who move to another country still write mainly for publication in their native land, because they understand its ways and manners enough to do so. It’s easy to comment on affairs in the U.S., but I think that even if I lived abroad I would often feel my comments about their culture and politics lacked the perspective and understanding that comes natural to a native. Of course, this can work both ways, and sometimes it takes a foreigner to point out the obvious. But I know that I would not feel entirely comfortable commenting on matters in another country – I’d feel I was always in danger of putting my foot in my mouth.
American Catholics are enslaved to Americanist ideology. Those on the Left are enslaved to one variation on it, those on the Right to another.
Conservative Catholics, for example, almost universally dissent on Catholic social teaching; ie, on incarnated, as opposed to purely personal, Catholicism.
I was recently listening to Al Kresta, a syndicated Catholic talk show host on the local Catholic radio station. He did a poll about Iraq, and 80% thought Bush was doing the right thing! This when Americans as a whole are becoming disillusioned with the war. Note that this is a war which the Vatican has strongly disapproved of.
And how many of your conservative Catholic friends strongly condemn the bombings of civilians in WWII [America's great unrepented atrocity]?
If there is a Greatest Nation in the World Contest it is clear that even Mudhole [which in real life would have a vibrant if primitive folk culture] would definitely win if we have spiritual criteria.
Heck, I nominate just about any culture where the Church, whether Catholic or Orthodox, still has a strong influence on daily life [rural Romania, Slovakia, Poland, Ireland, etc.] and which hasn’t invaded anybody for a long time.
So you would rather nominate a certain culture, rather than an entire nation? I think that might be easier anyway. I now hereby withdraw the nation question. As Mr. Stork writes, Providence has placed us where we are, and as Mr. Sarsfield writes, God very likely has placed us here to help bring about some sort of Catholic destiny. Perhaps great hope in what our nation has the potential to become is an area where we can say our nation is “great”. Potentially the greatest nation on the earth. How about that?
I agree with comments that say that my Mudhole couldn’t really exist. It is only a matter of time until the great minds of Mudhole, using their intellect disciplined by their spritual life, will create great art, and also devise technology appropriate to ease or remove most of their external problems. Knowing this I would probably opt to settle in Mudhole myself, if I wasn’t called by God to be somewhere else as (hopefully) leaven there.
But as the world stands today, I would choose to stay here in America.
I would like to add though, that part of what was running through my mind, when I posed the question, was that among the Caelum et Terra types, that soil and trees and clean water and local ecomony and organic and countryside and local government and rainfall and folk art and folk music and harvest festivals might interplay at least somewhat with the spiritual criteria in picking a place that is “great”